| 6:58:07 PM | garywhite | no, a cop got stabbed at the airport in Flint, MI
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| 6:58:28 PM | TheFu | Cop stabbing, right? Flint wasn't in the headline I saw.
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| 6:58:50 PM | Dennis_Kelley | Didnt make the headline, bummer!
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| 6:58:51 PM | TheFu | All the news here was about yesterdays house-of-rep election.
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| 6:58:54 PM | sparklyballs | my town was on the news yesterday for the roads melting in the heat and some girls baring their asses on the beach
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| 6:59:58 PM | Garbee | Yea I can hear it.
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| 7:00:02 PM | sr_Wences | Hi everyone!
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| 7:00:05 PM | Garbee | Very low, but audible.
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| 7:00:14 PM | sparklyballs | feed on kodi is a little stop start
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| 7:00:38 PM | sr_Wences | Sparkly - what have I missed over the last few weeks?
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| 7:00:58 PM | Garbee | Feed is doing fine for me on live.cat5.tv
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| 7:00:58 PM | TheFu | Kodi here is fine.
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| 7:01:15 PM | sr_Wences | Web feed is good for me!
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| 7:01:29 PM | Garbee | Guy mowing lawn, SashaD2 could not care less.
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| 7:01:31 PM | Solbu | kodi is fine from Norway.
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| 7:01:41 PM | sr_Wences | Hard boil the eggs!
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| 7:01:58 PM | Garbee | Mail me a few.
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| 7:02:15 PM | sr_Wences | Sashad2 - use them in your hair!
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| 7:02:25 PM | sparklyballs | omelette or go home SashaD2
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| 7:02:33 PM | alpeck | yes they are good for your hair
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| 7:02:35 PM | sr_Wences | I don't know, I'm not a girl!
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| 7:02:49 PM | TheFu | Devil's crab - tunafish - egg-based potato salad.
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| 7:02:59 PM | sparklyballs | put flour in your hair too SashaD2 and you'd have fairy cakes in your ears
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| 7:03:17 PM | Garbee | What about China and Eggs gets a show banned?
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| 7:03:39 PM | Garbee | RobbieF: Just go, the lawn mower is very lowly audible on the stream.
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| 7:03:48 PM | Garbee | It's probably far more distracting for ya'll in studio than us.
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| 7:03:49 PM | TheFu | Bury them for 6 months. Eat them as 1,000 yr eggs.
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| 7:04:31 PM | Solbu | "Tonight on Category 5: How to mow the lawn, using SSH into the engine.."
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| 7:05:11 PM | sparklyballs | i used to love watching the hayter at work on the farm SashaD2 , that thing was brutal, bunch of seriously thick chains spinning off the PTO of a tractor
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| 7:05:56 PM | TheFu | Solbu: So sunset at 23:30 tonight there?
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| 7:06:11 PM | Solbu | Something like that, yes.,
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| 7:06:34 PM | sr_Wences | I decided to install Ubuntu GNOME (16.04) since Ubuntu is going all GNOME and I kind of love it.
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| 7:06:49 PM | TheFu | Around 8:53p sunset here.
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| 7:06:52 PM | HenryBB | Nice!
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| 7:07:18 PM | sparklyballs | i spun up a copy of stretch day after release testing out as a replacement for the host os on my HTPC
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| 7:07:50 PM | sparklyballs | not quite ready for that task as of sunday, lot of the packages i needed weren't available yet
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| 7:09:10 PM | sr_Wences | Ugh! Explaining Linux and the different distros and the different flavors. Good luck...
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| 7:09:24 PM | TheFu | SLS
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| 7:09:26 PM | TheFu | Slack
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| 7:09:29 PM | TheFu | Debian ...
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| 7:09:33 PM | TheFu | Redhat
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| 7:09:35 PM | sr_Wences | I've tried with my kids and they just go, "Whatever!"
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| 7:09:39 PM | sparklyballs | gentoo
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| 7:09:59 PM | sr_Wences | Arch
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| 7:10:08 PM | sr_Wences | Mandriva
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| 7:10:21 PM | sparklyballs | alpine
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| 7:10:21 PM | sr_Wences | SUSE
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| 7:10:25 PM | TheFu | I think Debian is the oldest, mainstream, Linux distro.
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| 7:10:40 PM | TheFu | Slackware is still around, but ...
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| 7:10:42 PM | Solbu | RobbieF: Debian started in 1993, The Linux kernel came in 1991.
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| 7:10:50 PM | TheFu | APT!!!!!!
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| 7:10:55 PM | TheFu | Debian has APT!
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| 7:11:38 PM | sparklyballs | slack has been around as long as debian
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| 7:11:57 PM | TheFu | To avoid commercial programs.
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| 7:11:59 PM | TheFu | ?
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| 7:11:59 PM | sr_Wences | Knoppix!
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| 7:12:11 PM | sr_Wences | Knoppix was my first one as a live CD.
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| 7:12:45 PM | TheFu | Debian isn't as end-user friendly, right?
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| 7:12:59 PM | sr_Wences | I don't think anyone said Mint yet....
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| 7:13:05 PM | Solbu | RobbieF, SashaD2: a general rule is for new users to try a distro that your friends are using. That makes it easy to give help and support.
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| 7:14:54 PM | sr_Wences | ... and the up and coming distro for 2017.... Solus OS!
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| 7:15:00 PM | TheFu | Job 1 for Debian Stable is stability. In 1 yr when all the cloud APIs have changed, you'll want some newer programs, not those from "stable." That's my impression.
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| 7:15:58 PM | sparklyballs | backports can go a long way to getting newer packages if you don't mind sacrificing some stability TheFu
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| 7:16:22 PM | TheFu | But I can just use Ubuntu and get those, right?
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| 7:16:29 PM | sr_Wences | HenryBB - Canonical is dropping Unity for 18.04. Unity is croaked.
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| 7:16:42 PM | TheFu | Amen!!!!
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| 7:17:03 PM | HenryBB | :O
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| 7:18:05 PM | alpeck | Debian is currently #2 on distrowatch.com
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| 7:18:15 PM | Garbee | Unity is done for 17.10 already.
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| 7:18:30 PM | Garbee | 18.04 is just the next LTS.
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| 7:18:52 PM | sparklyballs | i only LTS for ubuntu
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| 7:19:02 PM | sparklyballs | *use LTS
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| 7:19:34 PM | sr_Wences | LTS - Me too Im getting kind of tired of Nuke and Pave every 6 months.
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| 7:19:41 PM | garywhite | alpeck: That was updated at 00:30, almost 23 hours ago
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| 7:19:45 PM | TheFu | Best for new users to try 5 different distros for 2-6 months each until they find what they like. Personal taste matters.
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| 7:20:26 PM | sr_Wences | It makes sense that they intro GNOME in 17.20 - work out the kinks before you go to a LTS with GNOME.
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| 7:20:35 PM | sr_Wences | 17.10 - oops!
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| 7:20:54 PM | garywhite | & why doesn't Canonical follow Microsoft & enable you to upgrade the OS without formatting the HDD
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| 7:20:59 PM | alpeck | it still has a long way to go to bet Mint garywhite
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| 7:21:12 PM | TheFu | garywhite: They do.
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| 7:21:28 PM | TheFu | But there is cruft left behind.
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| 7:21:54 PM | sparklyballs | it takes nearly as long to do that as a full install though TheFu
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| 7:21:59 PM | sr_Wences | garywhite U=In Ubuntu, you can go from LTS to LTS pretty good.
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| 7:22:23 PM | Garbee | SashaD2: Developers tend to like the "unstable" branches.
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| 7:22:31 PM | TheFu | I'm a fresh install guy, myself. Also only use LTS Ubuntu. ... but ...
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| 7:23:25 PM | TheFu | Fresh installed my laptop about 2 weeks ago. Took about an hour to get everything back.
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| 7:23:26 PM | alpeck | I prefer LTS as well
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| 7:23:26 PM | sr_Wences | I've been a distro hopper but as I've gotten oilder, I've stuck with LTS releases and hopped on a CraigsList laptop for goofing around.
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| 7:23:36 PM | TheFu | All my settings, data, programs, everything.
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| 7:23:43 PM | Garbee | Elementary OS FTW.
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| 7:23:51 PM | sr_Wences | I kind of want to try a rolling release though - no more distro upgrades.
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| 7:24:02 PM | Garbee | sr_Wences: OpenSUSE Tumbleweed
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| 7:24:04 PM | TheFu | Rolling failures?
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| 7:24:10 PM | Garbee | Fantastic choice for one to try out.
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| 7:24:47 PM | TheFu | Arch is rolling. Every few weeks when I used it, something would break for a few days that I needed. If you can live with that, great. Thank you for your service.
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| 7:24:57 PM | garywhite | oh
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| 7:25:19 PM | sr_Wences | Garbee - I just tried to install the latest Elementary on a laptop for my daughter (she likes pretty) and it crapped the n=bed twice. I had to install Ubuntu MATE and it worked fine. I had to add pretty colors and icons to make it more palatable.
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| 7:25:22 PM | sparklyballs | i found that a total pain in the proverbial with arch TheFu
|
| 7:25:42 PM | alpeck | for migrating family and friends i prefer Mint
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| 7:25:46 PM | Garbee | sr_Wences: That's odd. How old is that machine?
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| 7:25:48 PM | TheFu | Arch reminded me of Slackware.
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| 7:26:52 PM | sparklyballs | kernel makes the chicken SashaD2
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| 7:27:31 PM | Garbee | SashaD2: "Kernel" is the piece (Linux in this case) that let's the OS talk to the hardware.
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| 7:27:41 PM | sr_Wences | Garbee - it's old, but I have only had problems with it on Elementary. I installed a bunch of distros on it for kicks. LXLE, LXDE, Xubuntu, Fedora... and Elementary killed it and I had to format everything.
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| 7:27:44 PM | TheFu | Ran gentoo for 6 months. In theory, everything is compiled for your hardware specifically and should run faster. Loaded Redhat disktop (it was long ago) and everything was faster.
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| 7:27:57 PM | Mik3_0 | and chicken makes the eggs
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| 7:28:12 PM | TheFu | Kernel 3.13.xxx FTW!
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| 7:28:39 PM | Garbee | sr_Wences: All those sound very light on the graphics save Fedora which because it is Gnome has some level of low-graphics support.
|
| 7:29:09 PM | sparklyballs | when the mood takes me at some stage i'm going to give setting up "linux from scratch" a whirl
|
| 7:29:21 PM | TheFu | Seems that knowledgeable kernel tuners are smarter about that stuff than me.
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| 7:29:23 PM | Garbee | sparklyballs: I did attempt that once.
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| 7:29:34 PM | Garbee | It was fun until I decided it was just taking too much time.
|
| 7:29:36 PM | Garbee | :/
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| 7:29:36 PM | sr_Wences | Sashad2 - favorite laptops for scrubbing for LInux: XPS 13, Thinkpads, relatively recent Dell laptops.
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| 7:29:45 PM | Solbu | SashaD2 is winning tonight. :-)
|
| 7:29:49 PM | TheFu | and chromebooks!
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| 7:30:37 PM | sr_Wences | Sparklyballs the guys on the Mint Podcast jsut did a bunch of shows on Linux from scratch. It sounded like hard work. Lots of compiling.
|
| 7:30:41 PM | Mik3_0 | I need an Evernote or OneNote app for Linux
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| 7:30:45 PM | napa_polarbear | hi all
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| 7:30:47 PM | TheFu | Outlook - the 2nd largest virus ever created
|
| 7:31:00 PM | HenryBB | XD
|
| 7:31:01 PM | TheFu | Mik3_0: Basket Notes
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| 7:31:02 PM | napa_polarbear | hi all
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| 7:31:07 PM | sparklyballs | i don't mind compiling
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| 7:31:09 PM | HenryBB | hey!
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| 7:31:12 PM | Mik3_0 | doing it on the web sucks. Thanks TheFu I'll check it out
|
| 7:31:27 PM | sr_Wences | Mik3_0 - I've sold my soul to Google, so I use Google Keep.
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| 7:31:28 PM | TheFu | There are lots and lots of personal note apps.
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| 7:31:42 PM | TheFu | I self-host everything I can.
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| 7:32:12 PM | Garbee | Why is Deb better than RPM RobbieF?
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| 7:32:14 PM | Garbee | :P
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| 7:32:17 PM | Mik3_0 | I get nervous using google. They like to make cool things and stop supporting them :)
|
| 7:32:18 PM | Garbee | That's a dynomite question.
|
| 7:32:21 PM | TheFu | Not just free - F/LOSS!
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| 7:32:44 PM | TheFu | HenryBB: Free is not enough. I don't want just the beer, I want the beer recipe!
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| 7:32:44 PM | Garbee | DON"T!
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| 7:32:47 PM | Garbee | That was a joke.
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| 7:32:56 PM | sparklyballs | zypper is pretty decent package manager
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| 7:32:59 PM | Garbee | Good to know Robbie knew where I was going though.
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| 7:33:13 PM | TheFu | Holy war.
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| 7:35:48 PM | TheFu | SashaD2: In major metro areas and college towns, there are "InstallFests" every few months. Experts help newbies to install Linux. Just google for "installfest" and your down or university.
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| 7:35:55 PM | TheFu | s/down/town/
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| 7:36:20 PM | SashaD2 | that is such a help! Thank you TheFu!
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| 7:36:32 PM | TheFu | SashaD2: And don't forget the LUG - Linux Users Groups.
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| 7:37:32 PM | TheFu | No! PDF is when page layout is needed.
|
| 7:38:38 PM | TheFu | IMHO, avoid PDF unless it is needed. PDF can be edited. Don't think of it as read-only, unless you use proprietary extensions from Adobe (yuck).
|
| 7:38:59 PM | TheFu | ODF files are best. Everyone can open them.
|
| 7:39:43 PM | SashaD2 | I just save as ODF?
|
| 7:40:26 PM | TheFu | Open Document Format - that's the default for LibreOffice. All the other "productivity suites" can read those files.
|
| 7:40:57 PM | garywhite | I'll be darned, even Word has it
|
| 7:41:01 PM | TheFu | docx --
|
| 7:41:33 PM | Solbu | RobbieF: One thing that might be beneficial for users: How do they install additional software on it. I imagine it's different than on Ubuntu.
|
| 7:41:52 PM | sr_Wences | Sashad2 - ther might be programs that only work inWIndows that you need for work. Particularly small office programs.
|
| 7:41:54 PM | Garbee | Solbu: Probably Synaptic still.
|
| 7:42:03 PM | sparklyballs | as a non-gamer i haven't been burdened by windows since XP
|
| 7:42:04 PM | TheFu | SashaD2: Make a list of all the software used at work over a 2-4 month period and check that there are reasonable methods to use Linux to accomplish the same task.
|
| 7:42:07 PM | Garbee | CLI is the same though for Ubuntu users who do that.
|
| 7:42:34 PM | TheFu | Quicken / Investment apps / Tax software are Windows only here.
|
| 7:42:57 PM | benrob0329 | Write everything as LaTeX, then render to PDF :PP
|
| 7:43:08 PM | TheFu | benrob0329: ouch!
|
| 7:43:21 PM | benrob0329 | It doesn't look bad, honestly
|
| 7:44:15 PM | TheFu | Dual boot does have dangers.
|
| 7:44:19 PM | alpeck | haven't been able to port excel macro's to libreoffice calc due to lack of documentation
|
| 7:44:59 PM | TSmith1 | I've been wanting to try fusion360 but linux is a no go... what to do?
|
| 7:45:51 PM | Garbee | P2P/Torrent the ISOs and share the load.
|
| 7:46:16 PM | Garbee | SashaD2: No!
|
| 7:46:20 PM | Garbee | You'd only lose security.
|
| 7:46:28 PM | b_withage | Does debian stretch come with trixati installed?
|
| 7:46:40 PM | Garbee | The 32bit security APIs are less secure. Chrome (Google) is even not supporting 32bit anymore.
|
| 7:46:48 PM | TheFu | Does Pre-installed really matter?
|
| 7:47:11 PM | TheFu | If it is in the repos, install is bonehead.
|
| 7:47:33 PM | napa_polarbear | play on linux for gamming
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| 7:48:43 PM | TheFu | looks like a download manager ... .deb packages. Not in repos.
|
| 7:48:50 PM | HenryBB | I love gamming
|
| 7:48:52 PM | Garbee | TheFu: Tyranny of the Default. It isn't Mac/Windows/Android/iOS only.
|
| 7:48:52 PM | HenryBB | lol
|
| 7:49:05 PM | sparklyballs | there's a tixati torrent client
|
| 7:49:22 PM | TheFu | Garbee: Haven't been a default person in decades.
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| 7:49:33 PM | Garbee | TheFu: We aren't normal.
|
| 7:49:51 PM | TheFu | I've been told that before and assume you have too. ;)
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| 7:50:23 PM | sparklyballs | i'm english and normality is a premium package here
|
| 7:50:33 PM | TheFu | There are a few things that make me wish I lived in Canada.
|
| 7:50:43 PM | sr_Wences | dinner! I have to go Going to celebrate the summer solstice on the patio.
|
| 7:51:10 PM | Solbu | The Sims, mobile edition.
|
| 7:52:40 PM | TheFu | Who downloads 4G over wireless data?
|
| 7:52:42 PM | HenryBB | have a great dinner!!
|
| 7:53:00 PM | HenryBB | Technically our show is streamed on LTE ;)
|
| 7:53:27 PM | TheFu | I don't have data on my smartphone.
|
| 7:53:41 PM | sparklyballs | three in the uk used to do a package of unlimited data 300 minutes and 2000 texts for £10 a month sim only
|
| 7:54:23 PM | garywhite | I have no data on my smartphone, & a 1TB cap on home Internet
|
| 7:54:38 PM | TheFu | $2.95/month for my cell plan.
|
| 7:54:43 PM | sparklyballs | lol at whole foods in the uk, there are 7 stores here and 5 of them are in one city
|
| 7:55:26 PM | Garbee | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/06/nylas-mail-is-dead-jim
|
| 7:55:37 PM | Garbee | Nylas Mail client is no longer being developed or supported.
|
| 7:55:55 PM | Garbee | Kinda sad about that one.
|
| 7:56:01 PM | Garbee | Nylas was a decent mail client.
|
| 7:56:40 PM | garywhite | He's dead, Jim
|
| 7:57:20 PM | sparklyballs | large companies don't innovate , they just buy the smaller companies that do
|
| 7:57:42 PM | HenryBB | ^
|
| 7:57:43 PM | Mik3_0 | I just started using Nylas. I like that one
|
| 7:58:31 PM | TheFu | Thunderbird and K-9 mail for me.
|
| 7:58:55 PM | sparklyballs | the uk government is doing their level best to turn the internet here into a mini china situation
|
| 7:59:16 PM | HenryBB | great... :/
|
| 7:59:35 PM | HenryBB | its like what Edward snowden said, its privacy for all or privacy for none...
|
| 7:59:38 PM | TheFu | Groan
|
| 7:59:44 PM | sparklyballs | just about any government institute here has the right to peek at your data wirhout warrants
|
| 8:00:28 PM | TheFu | CraveTV ... paid, correct?
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| 8:00:38 PM | sparklyballs | meh, as much as i am against government interference i'm getting sick of snowden
|
| 8:00:39 PM | HenryBB | think so
|
| 8:01:13 PM | HenryBB | its summer now so no more snow ;)
|
| 8:02:19 PM | TheFu | Hopefully Andy isn't "disappeared" by the govt there.
|
| 8:02:54 PM | TheFu | NY State Supreme Court justice was phished for $1M
|
| 8:03:56 PM | sparklyballs | netgear sent out a bunch of emails out today informing users of updates that are non-existent and the links in them are dodgy looking although they're actually genuine according to admins on netgear community support forum
|
| 8:04:44 PM | Garbee | HenryBB: He also said to use QubesOS.
|
| 8:04:51 PM | Garbee | https://www.qubes-os.org/
|
| 8:05:16 PM | TheFu | Qubes ... didn't they want approval to stop publishing security issues?
|
| 8:06:09 PM | TheFu | Forget that - can't find a source now.
|
| 8:06:47 PM | Garbee | TheFu: Yea, I wouldn't think that would be their official stance on things.
|
| 8:07:02 PM | Garbee | Their group is pretty open about vulnerabilities and fixing them.
|
| 8:07:17 PM | TheFu | Garbee: I remember being shocked. It was due to Xen issues, methinks.
|
| 8:07:32 PM | sparklyballs | two man cockpit
|
| 8:07:40 PM | Garbee | Oh, I think they kept one issue quiet until it was fixed because it was so critical.
|
| 8:07:54 PM | Garbee | That's not a problem though in the right cases.
|
| 8:08:22 PM | Garbee | They found a problem like two years ago iirc that was so massively bad they wanted patches out in production at major users before they opened the details up.
|
| 8:08:46 PM | TheFu | Like the Heap/Stack collision thing this week for all Unix systems?
|
| 8:09:29 PM | Garbee | TheFu: No idea what that is.
|
| 8:09:46 PM | Garbee | Doesn't seem that critical if I haven't heard of it. :P I'm fairly tuned into security problems.
|
| 8:09:46 PM | TheFu | There was an Ars article about it.
|
| 8:09:59 PM | benrob0329 | ahh, finally get to sit down
|
| 8:10:04 PM | Garbee | https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/06/12-year-old-security-hole-in-unix-based-oses-isnt-plugged-after-all/
|
| 8:10:42 PM | TheFu | Local escalation.
|
| 8:11:20 PM | Garbee | I mean, you need to have access already.
|
| 8:11:42 PM | Garbee | So, the barrier is there so that this isn't *super* critical for most people. But for a good chunk it certainly is.
|
| 8:12:00 PM | TheFu | Exactly.
|
| 8:12:53 PM | Garbee | Thanks SashaD2, HenryBB, and RobbieF
|
| 8:13:03 PM | benrob0329 | oh, you guys should try one of Unicomp's kayboards, they even offer Tux printed Super keys :PP
|
| 8:13:30 PM | TheFu | Das Keyboard FTW, if you don't have IBM 101M handy!
|
| 8:13:54 PM | Dennis_Kelley | Thanks Guys! Awesome Show!
|
| 8:14:33 PM | benrob0329 | TheFu: im using a Unicomp Classic 103 right now :D
|
| 8:14:52 PM | benrob0329 | a note however: but a wire key puller
|
| 8:14:59 PM | RobbieF | thanks DK!
|
| 8:15:31 PM | benrob0329 | sometimes the keys get in wierd places and need to be re-inserted
|
| 8:15:43 PM | Garbee | RobbieF: ponder that RPM question though...
|
| 8:15:44 PM | Garbee | :P
|
| 8:16:13 PM | benrob0329 | like my spacebar wasn't quite in right, to i had to hit it in the center (as if it wasn't stabilised)
|
| 8:16:16 PM | TheFu | My desktop has a $0.50 IBM 101M. Picked up 3 at a swap meet in '96.
|
| 8:16:23 PM | SashaD2 | Thank you for a great night guys!!! see you next week!!!
|
| 8:17:26 PM | garywhite | Does anyone remember iGoogle?
|
| 8:17:33 PM | Garbee | garywhite: yup.
|
| 8:18:20 PM | garywhite | I've been trying to make a private Google site like my own web portal, but so far all I can get is the clock.
|
| 8:18:22 PM | RobbieF | thanks everyone!!
|
| 8:18:50 PM | TheFu1 | garywhite: If you aren't paying for a service then ...
|
| 8:19:04 PM | garywhite | then?
|
| 8:19:33 PM | Garbee | RobbieF: You missed an opportunity (unless I missed it) to compare Linux Distro's to onions.
|
| 8:19:44 PM | Garbee | Way early in the show.
|
| 8:20:12 PM | Garbee | Super good though. At least you knew to chuckle at my deb vs RPM question. ;)
|
| 8:21:31 PM | garywhite | TheFu: What if I'm not paying for a service?
|
| 8:21:51 PM | TheFu | Then YOU are the product.
|
| 8:22:11 PM | TheFu | being sold.
|
| 8:22:45 PM | garywhite | It's basically just a page that I'm trying to set up with a clock, a weather widget, & a news widget
|
| 8:22:49 PM | garywhite | nothing fancy
|
| 8:23:12 PM | TheFu | In for a penny, in for a pound.
|
| 8:23:39 PM | TheFu | Everyone has to decide where they draw the line for themselves.
|
| 8:26:05 PM | garywhite | if not, I'm just gonna put my bookmarks into symbaloo
|
| 8:31:39 PM | gpop7 | Goodnight all.
|
| 8:35:18 PM | garywhite | nvm, I found a new website that acts just like iGoogle
|