Chat Logs for Episode 511 — #Category5 on /


With 100 Posts:Garbee
With 76 Posts:Lyndon
With 70 Posts:TheFu
With 41 Posts:sparklyballs
With 37 Posts:Dooley_da_Vulcan

Chat Logs:

6:58:05 PMHenryBB rave! lol
6:58:24 PMSolbu SashaD2: We can use out binoculars, on the beach. :-)
6:58:31 PMsparklyballs it's a close point cos the early atlantic crossings left or went to newfoundland
6:59:20 PMSashaD2 Then you can come!!!!
6:59:44 PMgarywhite Did I miss a Doctor Who conversation?
6:59:51 PMsparklyballs i don't have an early biplane handy though
7:00:03 PMsparklyballs taking bets on the next doctor garywhite
7:00:14 PMSashaD2 Darn
7:00:26 PMgarywhite I'm not placing a bet, cause I'm really not sure
7:00:46 PMsparklyballs i've had my fill of weddings for the next 200 years SashaD2
7:00:55 PMSashaD2 I hear ya!
7:01:44 PMsparklyballs we have the largest airshow in the northwest of the uk over the beach here in southport HenryBB
7:02:21 PMnapa_polarbear hi all
7:02:40 PMLyndon Whats up with the dalek
7:02:45 PMsparklyballs
7:02:55 PMLyndon oh.. sorry lag
7:03:11 PMHenryBB phil the dalek is a guest
7:04:17 PMSolbu «Today on Category5: How to register on our new forum»
7:04:18 PMsparklyballs i reckon the next doctor is gonna be a woman
7:04:34 PMLyndon oh please no
7:04:45 PMsparklyballs dinky drone SashaD2 alliteration is all
7:05:40 PMsparklyballs gemma arterton for the doctor , lol.
7:06:10 PMLyndon I'm sure that there are some awesome female actresses that could pull of the role but it would still feel weird.
7:06:38 PMsparklyballs na, it wasn't weird when the master became missy
7:07:03 PMLyndon eh...
7:08:03 PMLyndon that looks fun
7:08:49 PMHenryBB hey audio ;)
7:09:03 PMLyndon I cant hear you audio
7:09:11 PMaudio Hey HBB
7:09:15 PMLyndon haha
7:09:25 PMsparklyballs audio needs subtitles
7:09:31 PMaudio Turn me up louder
7:09:38 PMLyndon oh ok
7:09:45 PMLyndon ;)
7:10:20 PMgarywhite BTW, Amazon had a deal on the weekend, & thanks to that I was able to get Doctor Who Series 7 on Bluray for $20
7:10:26 PMHenryBB ohhh!
7:10:36 PMLyndon Cool
7:13:38 PMLyndon groovy music!
7:15:58 PMMoeMaravilla Hello everyone... Have not connected live on the chat for a while now.
7:16:22 PMaudio Hello Moe
7:16:30 PMHenryBB hello hello!
7:16:30 PMRobbieF Hey MoeMaravilla! Nice to see you.
7:16:36 PMM1k3_0 heyMoe
7:16:56 PMTheFu The paper-dude is missing the 4am timeframe and rain, based on my experience.
7:17:10 PMHenryBB hehe nice
7:17:46 PMTheFu Delivering papers when it is 40 below outside, in the dark, ain't fun.
7:18:08 PMaudio Did you break a window?
7:18:16 PMHenryBB yeah... lol
7:18:30 PMMoeMaravilla Looks like fun
7:18:39 PMsparklyballs pop a wheelie over the roadblocks
7:18:44 PMLyndon yay
7:18:48 PMHenryBB totally
7:18:52 PMTheFu And you are throwing more papers than you have customers. Running out won't be good.
7:18:52 PMM1k3_0 Nice
7:19:17 PMLyndon awesome graphics wow!
7:19:39 PMLyndon pvp
7:20:47 PMM1k3_0 Deadspace ish
7:20:58 PMsparklyballs that would count as a bad day
7:21:16 PMHenryBB pretty much deadspace
7:21:58 PMsparklyballs i was wondering about that accent
7:22:17 PMTheFu Prague rocks!
7:22:21 PMM1k3_0 I bet that was fun to play in VR
7:22:36 PMHenryBB the spoops
7:22:42 PMHenryBB lol was pretty fun!
7:22:56 PMLyndon dead space is on steam $19.99 I just looked it up
7:23:11 PMM1k3_0 nice
7:23:25 PMHenryBB Get it! Dead space 1 is one of the best horror games I've played
7:23:32 PMHenryBB 2 is ok, 3 is meh..
7:28:13 PMHenryBB sorry about the last interview all, forgot to press "record" on the mic :P
7:29:48 PMaudio Needs more audio!
7:29:53 PMLyndon That reminds me of that new interactive game table / flat screen tv
7:31:17 PMLyndon
7:31:45 PMaudio I missed the top of the show. Did anyone wish Henry a Happy birthday?
7:32:03 PMLyndon not sure
7:32:17 PMSashaD2 not live.... we re3ally should now
7:32:24 PMLyndon I missed the beginning too
7:32:27 PMHenryBB oh thanks lol
7:32:36 PMM1k3_0 Woke up late. I got in when they were starting up
7:32:39 PMsparklyballs happy birthday HenryBB
7:32:46 PMLyndon Happy Birthday!!!
7:33:00 PMHenryBB
7:33:02 PMaudio Happy Birthday!
7:33:03 PMMoeMaravilla Happy b-day Henry
7:33:06 PMM1k3_0 Nice. Happy Birthday HenryBB!!!
7:33:14 PMsparklyballs cooking lessons for robots would be a good use of VR
7:33:31 PMHenryBB yum...
7:33:55 PMTheFu Extreme sports for VR
7:34:01 PMsparklyballs i'm double that and a little more lol
7:34:04 PMLyndon Virtual Cake =)
7:34:14 PMHenryBB the cake is a lie!
7:34:21 PMHenryBB -sorry couldn't resist reference
7:34:27 PMLyndon hehehe
7:35:01 PMMoeMaravilla I'm just 33 (in hex).
7:35:46 PMsparklyballs i'm 32 in hex
7:36:22 PMsparklyballs diverted where SashaD2 ?
7:36:58 PMsparklyballs you murdered that uk place name lol
7:37:36 PMsparklyballs bourne like jason bourne
7:37:43 PMTheFu Aren't drones on 2.4Ghz bands?
7:37:56 PMLyndon most i think
7:38:17 PMsparklyballs and the mouth part of bournemouth is like mirth
7:38:27 PMTheFu So if you overload those, think of all the BT and wifi that gets fried just because it is nearby too?
7:40:54 PMLyndon something small like that wouldn't explode the engine but they would have bad vibrations
7:41:08 PMTheFu Engine makers care more. Fuel costs are over 50% of the cost of a commercial plane over the life of the airframe.
7:41:18 PMLyndon even birds dont really do That much damage
7:41:31 PMsparklyballs and if a high speed aircraft has something hit the engine, not only do you have the object doing damage but the mesh too cos there isn't much can take that kind of beating
7:41:34 PMTheFu Frozen turkies do. ;)
7:41:39 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Hello all
7:41:41 PMLyndon i used to be a Jet Engine Mech
7:41:47 PMBobK54 a small drone could easily take out a fan blade. remember the recent video of an aircraft shaking badly for 90 minutes?
7:41:49 PMTheFu ASE here.
7:41:59 PMDooley_da_Vulcan UFO ......
7:42:12 PMLyndon bird strikes are awful to clean up though
7:42:30 PMDooley_da_Vulcan more ways to mine and collect data from more places
7:42:53 PMHenryBB haha can def relate with cleaning up whats left
7:42:55 PMLyndon i guess it depends on the aircraft too
7:42:55 PMTheFu They shoot chickens at aircraft parts to see how well they handle "bird strikes." The joke is that someone forgot to thaw it first, once.
7:43:18 PMsparklyballs and that's how they make chicken nuggets TheFu
7:43:28 PMLyndon Myth Busters
7:43:31 PMLyndon ;)
7:43:31 PMTheFu More like chicken dust
7:43:36 PMBobK54 saw one feeder aircraft in a hanger one time where a goose went through the leading edge, through the main spar, and was lodged in the trailing edge of the main wing. Cleanup on aisle 3!!
7:43:56 PMTheFu Space shuttle accident.
7:43:57 PMLyndon Wow
7:44:07 PMHenryBB ouch
7:44:20 PMsparklyballs a uk program when i was a kid fired a candle through a solid core oak door with some hyper powered air cannon
7:44:51 PMLyndon Thats awesome
7:44:53 PMDooley_da_Vulcan the public has to make sure they take extra steps to be safe.....the way of the future
7:44:59 PMTheFu We shot bullets and captured photos of the shock waves in college.
7:46:02 PMTheFu supersonic wind tunnel ...
7:47:05 PMLyndon one of our jets were shot in one of the engine with a rocket while running and i think 2 stages of the turbine section flew into the fuselage and wing
7:47:12 PMalbertr Hey
7:47:33 PMTheFu Lyndon: Ouch - need a better cowling
7:47:48 PMTheFu vorbis - FTW!
7:48:02 PMLyndon well.. it was a rocket so ;)
7:48:52 PMLyndon the jet came back whith sheet metal patches all over it. Kindof looked like a cartoon jet
7:49:12 PMSashaD2 I'm so sorry Sparklyballs... I should have asked you first!!!!
7:49:17 PMLyndon no one got hurt though thankfuly
7:49:43 PMTheFu I figured it was just her Canadian accent. ;)
7:50:33 PMTheFu But I didn't know how to pronounce it either. ;(
7:50:47 PMDooley_da_Vulcan SashaD2: Leave the hair across the face, actually looks good.... just look at models, they often have that kind of look. lol
7:51:00 PMSashaD2 I'm just really horrible with names.... really bad
7:51:27 PMTheFu SashaD2: Part of your special charm.
7:51:36 PMLyndon lol
7:51:38 PMsparklyballs hardly any uk places sound like they read
7:52:12 PMMoeMaravilla Vinnyl is king.
7:52:20 PMLyndon now shes going to think about her hair for the rest of the show
7:52:26 PMMoeMaravilla vinyl that is.
7:52:29 PMSashaD2 yep
7:53:23 PMTheFu MoeMaravilla: vinyl is great, for about 50 playbacks.
7:53:42 PMLyndon Sasha Gets it ;)
7:54:00 PMTheFu Whoooosh
7:54:54 PMLyndon I have respect for all authors. I have been trying to finish the rough draft for my SciFi novel and its so hard to keep writing.
7:55:15 PMLyndon Laa meee
7:55:40 PMLyndon like Frajeelay
7:55:42 PMMoeMaravilla TheFu: you get aliasing with digitizing (you don't really drop the highs - like Robbie said)
7:55:48 PMsparklyballs gold lah mee suit
7:55:51 PMTheFu nano? Say is ain't so RobbieF!
7:56:03 PMsparklyballs nano is great
7:56:04 PMSashaD2 I just love reading so much that I wish I could write! Lyndon, you can do it!
7:56:05 PMDooley_da_Vulcan RobbieF: so did you have to only remark out the CD as a source or add the actual repository source
7:56:06 PMLyndon haaa
7:56:22 PMLyndon Thanks SashaD2
7:56:24 PMTheFu sudo apt purge nano - the first thing I type on a new system.
7:56:38 PMsparklyballs vim is just so user friendly lol
7:56:50 PMTheFu Flashbacks to LUKSdump.
7:57:07 PMLyndon Dont forget the MAP
7:57:11 PMsparklyballs i like nano
7:57:29 PMLyndon that was hilarious
7:57:43 PMTheFu Until you see vim in the hands of an expert, you have NO idea of the power.
7:57:55 PMSashaD2 so funny.... I hurt from laughing the next day
7:58:05 PMGarbee Heyyo
7:58:07 PMLyndon me too
7:58:10 PMGarbee Just realized what time it was!
7:58:11 PMLyndon OMG
7:58:12 PMGarbee :(
7:58:18 PMLyndon woah!
7:58:23 PMLyndon crazy
7:58:27 PMTheFu 7:58p?
7:58:35 PMGarbee Yea, show hour.
7:58:38 PMM1k3_0 hate when that happens
7:58:43 PMGarbee er hour-ish now.
7:58:51 PMTheFu lame --presets help
7:58:57 PMGarbee I don't mind too much though. I had tacos.
7:59:05 PMSashaD2 mmmmm food.
7:59:15 PMTheFu Tacos are almost always excellent!
7:59:26 PMSashaD2 I'm so hungry (which seems to be a bit of a theme)
7:59:28 PMsparklyballs i like food
7:59:30 PMLyndon I grilled a T-bone earlier
7:59:40 PMLyndon mmmmm
7:59:42 PMGarbee TheFu: Taco Bell... Hard to mess up, but mine were mostly coldish by the time I ate them. Thanks fast-food.
8:00:03 PMGarbee SashaD2: Yea, Food is a big theme for Cat5 live.
8:00:06 PMsparklyballs aside from fish and shellfish make me so ill
8:00:07 PMGarbee ;)
8:00:17 PMGarbee sparklyballs: The fish shell is amazing.
8:00:23 PMGarbee Although I am looking at elvish lately.
8:00:24 PMSashaD2 I'm in the mood for Mexican. Spicy
8:00:29 PMDooley_da_Vulcan SashaD2: don't you have a pizza place down the strip?
8:00:29 PMGarbee
8:00:35 PMTheFu Crab curry day here.
8:00:36 PMGarbee Has some JSON interpretation stuff built in.
8:00:52 PMGarbee Ok, dog wants out. Be back in a few.
8:01:04 PMLyndon I have some cabernet sauvignon here
8:01:18 PMLyndon went good with the steak
8:01:20 PMSashaD2 The closest place is salad.... but I'm in a carb mood
8:01:35 PMsparklyballs it's 1 am here and i have h2o
8:01:49 PMLyndon I've been low carb for like a month now. ugh
8:02:11 PMHenryBB you are all making me hungry now!
8:02:15 PMLyndon good for you SB
8:02:23 PMLyndon =)
8:02:34 PMTheFu SashaD2: Croutons - lots of croutons.
8:02:36 PMSashaD2 I "should" be eating better... however, my wedding dress in actually one size fits all... so I could have nachos
8:02:52 PMLyndon lol.. noooo bad croutons!
8:02:58 PMTheFu Shouldn't someone listen to Robbie?
8:03:08 PMLyndon meh
8:03:13 PMsparklyballs salad is ok on something fatty or meaty
8:03:21 PMM1k3_0 LOL got it covered :)
8:03:21 PMTheFu The guy know his audio.
8:03:24 PMSashaD2 I will. starting now
8:03:41 PMLyndon we can rewatch on youtube and then make more coments Mwa haha
8:03:44 PMMoeMaravilla I think you guys are making Sasha Laugh.
8:04:00 PMLyndon yup
8:04:02 PMTheFu Isn't that the goal for IRC every show?
8:04:16 PMLyndon yes... it is
8:04:26 PMSashaD2 :)
8:04:38 PMsparklyballs we need JW to make laugh on the live show
8:04:44 PMLyndon Jk SashaD2
8:04:46 PMDooley_da_Vulcan SashaD2: loves food for thought... lol
8:04:56 PMDooley_da_Vulcan no calories
8:04:59 PMsparklyballs i need pizza
8:05:12 PMTheFu Lame doesn't have to be this hard. There are presets.
8:05:13 PMLyndon Bad Pizza
8:05:23 PMLyndon too many complex carbs
8:05:46 PMLyndon wow, thats actually neet
8:05:55 PMsparklyballs i'm compensating for my lack of complexity
8:06:05 PMTheFu lame --preset phone
8:06:07 PMSashaD2 We have an awesome wood fired pizza place here, it's the best. Heavenly
8:06:21 PMHenryBB PIZZA
8:06:25 PMTheFu lame --preset hifi
8:06:57 PMsparklyballs mediainfo is a monster to compile
8:07:25 PMLyndon aahhh
8:07:36 PMsparklyballs channels
8:07:41 PMTheFu You can write a script that parses mplayer -I output.
8:07:55 PMLyndon I love the voice RobbieF
8:08:25 PMMoeMaravilla Cool Robbie
8:08:48 PMTheFu ogg or vorbis get better audio quality for fewer bits too.
8:08:57 PMTheFu If your player supports it.
8:09:14 PMTheFu Vorbis is supported more and more. Not an issue on my Android devices.
8:09:36 PMalbertr lame is good
8:09:38 PMLyndon Video froze
8:09:53 PMDooley_da_Vulcan So lame is not lame ?!
8:10:16 PMLyndon guess not
8:10:25 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Go eat SashaD2 and enjoy it...
8:10:27 PMGarbee hmm, time to look into setting up an OBS repository for Elvish in the next few days.
8:10:33 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Thank you all
8:10:34 PMGarbee See if I can get it auto-building and distributing.
8:10:46 PMTheFu Don't forget the lead-in.
8:10:50 PMsparklyballs gnite all
8:10:52 PMBobK54 good stuff as usual! have a great week!
8:10:53 PMMoeMaravilla Bye to all... That was fun.
8:11:00 PMSashaD2 Thank you!!!! TheFu
8:11:09 PMGarbee I watched the new Power Rangers movie yesterday (and this morning.)
8:11:15 PMGarbee *SO* much better than I was expecting.
8:11:35 PMGarbee I think they did very well for a universal reboot movie.
8:11:44 PMLyndon you got it Henry
8:11:50 PMDooley_da_Vulcan I think the new PR movie was great. Made me want a sequel 1/4 of the way through
8:12:02 PMTheFu Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday,
8:12:03 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: I have *one* sole major complaint.
8:12:09 PMGarbee Krispy Kreme.
8:12:12 PMGarbee UGH
8:12:26 PMGarbee That one part of the movie I literally hated. It's such obvious paid placement.
8:12:34 PMGarbee And they laid it on thick.
8:12:38 PMsparklyballs reboot aka new name for cash in remake that sounds a little more cool and not as explotative but is exactly the same anyways
8:12:41 PMTheFu Garbee: Krispy Kreme rocks!
8:12:49 PMGarbee Other than that, the movie is amazing.
8:12:57 PMRobbieF Wooo! what a show!
8:13:16 PMGarbee TheFu: don't get me wrong, I love my donuts too. But, they literally could have put anything there and it not mattered save one joke.
8:13:23 PMLyndon Yes. the VR show was very cool
8:13:34 PMGarbee And that one joke was really surplifuous too.
8:13:51 PMGarbee So, I hated the constant Krispy Kreme referencing.
8:13:51 PMLyndon Eat some Pizza, you earned it!
8:14:07 PMGarbee or some donut snow if you're in a carbs mood SashaD2.
8:14:24 PMGarbee I think that Krispy Kreme talk from the Power Rangers movie should do that to ya.
8:14:25 PMGarbee ;)
8:14:38 PMLyndon hahaha
8:14:58 PMGarbee But yea, that's my only complaint for that whole movie.
8:15:00 PMSashaD2 I'm probably going to end up with grilled cheese :)
8:15:12 PMGarbee I think the entire team, directing, acting, writing, etc. did a superb job.
8:15:12 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Later all, have a good week. Trying to determine what distro to use.
8:15:27 PMSashaD2 Tank you and good night!!
8:15:35 PMLyndon oohh, Grilled cheeses with tomato is awesome! see y'all!
8:15:38 PMTheFu mic dropped?
8:15:38 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: OpenSUSE is my recommendation.
8:15:43 PMGarbee To at least give a shot.
8:16:04 PMTheFu SashaD2: Use 2-3 different types of cheese - as wicked.
8:16:09 PMGarbee I had to come back to Elementary because 1) Pantheon desktop, 2) PHP extension configuration through packages provides what I need more easily.
8:16:12 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Garbee: have you tried the new Debian Stretch?
8:16:31 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: Nah, Debian itself doesn't interest me.
8:16:58 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Garbee: am tending to still stroll back to Ubuntu Mate
8:17:19 PMGarbee Elementary has my heart now due to the Pantheon Desktop. Once OpenSUSE has it stable and easy to setup... I'm eyeing to jump ship much more heavily and figure out the few server hiccups I have on SUSE.
8:17:48 PMGarbee I have like 2 PHP extensions and 1 other server component that is being a pain in my rear to make sure get updated when needed with new PHP versions.
8:17:59 PMGarbee Other than that, I'm basically golden beyond the desktop itself.
8:18:23 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Garbee: benefits of OpenSUSE that you see for someone never having used it?
8:18:36 PMGarbee SUSE has tons of tooling underneath too for keeping packages more up-to-date. They're faster than any other distro typically with their updates on Tumbleweed (their rolling release.)
8:18:52 PMGarbee Also, the RPM system does delta updating. So saves some bandwidth.
8:19:14 PMGarbee It is also secure-by-default. Which may be a good thing for you or a major PITA where you turn most of it off.
8:19:22 PMDooley_da_Vulcan desktop computing and plex server is the most complex use of this system
8:19:47 PMGarbee And the Yast manager takes some getting used to, but it has its benefits once you figure them out (like ncurses GUI through the CLI to configure things without a desktop.)
8:20:34 PMGarbee I'd say, if you can spare a disk or install attempt and try OpenSUSE first, go for it. If you're time-crunched on working on these things, then just stick with what you know.
8:21:15 PMGarbee But, I *really* dig OpenSUSE all-around save the lack of my preferred DE (because the Elementary team specifically builds it for an Ubuntu-base.)
8:21:51 PMGarbee It's not like you'll notice massive performance differences or anything though.
8:22:10 PMGarbee It's just a different interface to package management and your desktop configuration mostly.
8:22:48 PMGarbee Which I being a CLI user, I actually find the zypper setup more robust. Even though it is more confusing at first to learn all the ins-and-outs to script things.
8:23:18 PMGarbee Oh, OpenSUSE's major downside though is the install process.
8:23:26 PMGarbee In particular drive partitions!
8:23:44 PMDooley_da_Vulcan I have a collection of 500 gig mag drives for a 6 core 4ghz 16 gig system. I could do varied virtualized setups
8:23:46 PMGarbee BE VERY CAREFUL on your first run through if you have a complex drive setup like I do!!!!
8:24:11 PMGarbee In my case, I dump into "expert" mode and then need to "rescan drives" to clear out the auto-config they do up front.
8:24:21 PMGarbee Then I can see all my drives as they are and modify the partitions how I wish.
8:24:39 PMGarbee That's my one absolute utter annoyance with the installer.
8:24:47 PMGarbee If you aren't very careful there, you can delete shit by accident.
8:25:13 PMDooley_da_Vulcan Being an old DOS user I had to learn to go to a fully GUI system and so now going back to a CLI is not any kind of issue at all, just look up the commands and switches
8:26:28 PMDooley_da_Vulcan I used to tell friends and relatives when they would ask about FDISK, ( which they always managed to ask about being totally lost in DOS) that it stood for "Fuck Up Disk"
8:26:40 PMGarbee yea pretty much.
8:27:14 PMDooley_da_Vulcan and the less skill and experience they had the more likely they would be to ask about Fdisk
8:27:21 PMDooley_da_Vulcan you notice that
8:27:31 PMGarbee But I love how the SUSE community kinda revolves around the OBS for repos. Like Ubuntu people do Launchpad for PPAs. But, OBS stuff is capable of also building and serving for any platform.
8:27:59 PMDooley_da_Vulcan what is OBS ?
8:28:00 PMGarbee OpenSUSE also has *heavy* QA testing over their updates all automated.
8:28:04 PMGarbee OpenSUSE Build Service
8:28:08 PMDooley_da_Vulcan ahh
8:28:52 PMGarbee So, what happens is an update happens, it then runs through their QA system doing *automated testing* of any interactions required (even GUI stuff) and the screenshots are hashed and compared against what is expected.
8:29:08 PMGarbee If it doesn't pass, an error is thrown to be looked at by a human with the diff of the images.
8:29:33 PMGarbee They can then either approve the new change as expected or stop progression of the build until the problem is fixed.
8:29:44 PMGarbee They do that even for DE changes to stuff in K or gnome.
8:30:03 PMGarbee It's amazing the infrastructure they've built and it all leads to super-good quality of packages.
8:30:27 PMGarbee I personally use Leap (their stable releases) with a crap ton of repositories from OBS to get what I need updated.
8:30:52 PMGarbee That way the main desktop is stable (K or gnome, whatever) but my software like PHP, Redis, Nginx, etc. are all the latest and secure versions.
8:32:24 PMDooley_da_Vulcan That is cool, I would think automated testing would be or could be more thorough than human. Given enough parameter possibilities you could check combos and differences that might never arise.
8:34:18 PMDooley_da_Vulcan like testing the use of notepad in windows, automated you could test it maximizing from all positions onscreen, starting at all sizes. something that no human would do but that could some how generate an error at some poing
8:34:21 PMDooley_da_Vulcan point also
8:34:36 PMGarbee nah, not *that* detailed.
8:34:47 PMGarbee You mainly just want to automate primary functionality given confined parameters.
8:34:54 PMGarbee That way the tests can be more easily maintained over time.
8:35:17 PMGarbee If we had machine learning underneath, then your level of details in testing could be possible.
8:35:23 PMTheFu Creating test scenarios/cases is very time consuming when a GUI is involved.
8:35:24 PMDooley_da_Vulcan but as an automated process you could test possible issues that person one may not think of
8:35:26 PMGarbee But, that's quite some time away for desktop-level testing.
8:35:34 PMGarbee Doable now for web stuff,
8:35:47 PMGarbee But, for desktop it's much more challenging to do this kind of testing in the first place.
8:35:50 PMTheFu Fuzzing is a common way to find security related bugs.
8:36:12 PMTheFu Throw crap at any input - see what crashes.
8:36:17 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: The "automated process" is all *manually* created though.
8:36:28 PMGarbee A person sits down and writes the pathway and parameters that need to be tested.
8:36:38 PMDooley_da_Vulcan just a matter of a few variables, run through x,y, l and w
8:36:42 PMGarbee It just saves having *someone* manually doing those tests repeatedly in the future with all patches.
8:36:58 PMGarbee It's not that easy with testing Dooley.
8:37:00 PMTheFu But test maintenance is a hassle too.
8:37:07 PMTheFu But needs to be done.
8:37:13 PMGarbee At least, not in the level you're detailing.
8:37:27 PMDooley_da_Vulcan manually testing leaves so much missed
8:37:31 PMGarbee There are some places where you can do variance testing based on randomized input values.
8:37:37 PMTheFu Worked on a project with 7 levels of testing for 5 yrs.
8:37:49 PMTheFu My team did only Level 1.
8:37:56 PMGarbee Which is why you automate it Dooley_da_Vulcan. And you test against the primary functionality of an application.
8:37:59 PMTheFu We did the coding too.
8:38:19 PMGarbee You don't give a crap how the thing minimizes from various places on screen. That's surplifuous.
8:38:30 PMGarbee especially for every application.
8:38:33 PMDooley_da_Vulcan what sucks is where testing version A takes long enough that it is old by the time it gets approved
8:38:45 PMGarbee That also increases the test time, which is already extreme in itself.
8:39:21 PMTheFu TDD - test driven development - a way to have minimal, stupid, testing, performed by the devs.
8:39:21 PMGarbee There is such a thing as *over-testing*.
8:39:34 PMTheFu Garbee: Depends on the application.
8:39:34 PMGarbee And "100% coverage" is never 100%. That's a false goal to impress managers.
8:39:42 PMTheFu Not true.
8:39:48 PMTheFu We did 100% coverage.
8:39:49 PMGarbee If you test cases don't fail when needed and you have 100% coverage, are the tests worth it?
8:39:51 PMDooley_da_Vulcan that is why I was thinking only maximizing
8:39:54 PMTheFu It was VERY EXPENSIVE.
8:40:38 PMTheFu I would never say anyone should do that and more.
8:40:45 PMTheFu s/and/any/
8:41:06 PMGarbee It's certainly achievable especially for newer projects if you test from the start.
8:41:15 PMTheFu But ... the contract required CMMI-5 processes.
8:41:35 PMGarbee But, "100% coverage" in itself is a false-goal. Because if that coverage doesn't catch *every* case, it isn't 100%.
8:41:51 PMTheFu Ok ... 99.995% coverage.
8:42:14 PMTheFu And I'll admit that probably only 30% was possible in the vehicle.
8:42:20 PMGarbee All that coverage means is, "we have physically processed every line" not "We have tested it including with extreme parameter values to verify functionality in as many circumstances as possible."
8:42:45 PMTheFu Actually, we didn't test lines. We looked at the ASM and tested every conditional.
8:43:33 PMTheFu After about 20 yrs of the project doing that, management finally convinced the customer it wasn't the most efficient testing method that would find the most bugs.
8:43:51 PMDooley_da_Vulcan So where was the fail with Windows or was it more fails and less pass
8:44:29 PMTheFu ME had a underlying system architecture issue.
8:44:32 PMDooley_da_Vulcan how does some of the bigger failures get through the processes? unless the processes themselves had issues
8:44:33 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: No automated tests or few decent ones most likely.
8:44:54 PMGarbee Most of MS's true automated testing didn't start wrapping around into maturity until the XP era.
8:45:17 PMGarbee They had basic test levels earlier but it wasn't anything that would really hit user interaction.
8:45:36 PMDooley_da_Vulcan did I not hear that Me had issues of not freeing memory from closed applications thus slowly eating away at the system memory till none was free
8:45:43 PMGarbee In those days, any kind of automated testing was still pretty early on in existence. They were learning as they built it.
8:45:58 PMTheFu For microsoft.
8:46:09 PMGarbee Dooley_da_Vulcan: Problems like that are hard to catch in testing anyways.
8:46:11 PMTheFu Elsewhere, we used batch testing.
8:46:29 PMGarbee As that asks for a long-running test purposefully built to run for what is possibly hours or more.
8:46:35 PMTheFu And had been doing that for decades.
8:46:37 PMGarbee Tests you don't want to be slow like that.
8:48:24 PMGarbee Well, I'm getting off the computers for the night.
8:48:36 PMGarbee See ya'll next week of not in the chatroom during the week.
8:48:42 PMGarbee of/if
8:49:09 PMDooley_da_Vulcan I am getting the call myself to go. good night and take care all.
9:06:44 PMRobbieF thanks all - hope you have a great night!!


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